Fellay and Müller discuss a “gradual” move towards full reconciliation

[Dawn Marie]

Fellay and Müller discuss a “gradual” move towards full reconciliation

The meeting between the Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X and the heads of the Ecclesia Dei Commission lasted two hours. The Secretary of the former Holy office, Luis Ladaria, was also present.

Their meeting lasted two hours, from 11a.m. to 1 p.m. CET. The Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X, Bishop Bernard Fellay and Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and President of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei” (the body that handles relations between the Holy See’s and the Lefebvrians), discussed “problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature” which need to be resolved in order for the Fraternity to enter into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church.  This was the first time Fellay held a face to face meeting with Müller since the latter was appointed head of the doctrinal Congregation. The Holy See announced the meeting, which took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

 The Holy See’s press release informs that the talks were “cordial”. Müller was joined by archbishops Luis Ladaria and Augustine Di Noia, respectively secretary and adjunct secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithand Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”. Bishop Fellay was accompanied by two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.

 “During the meeting,” the statement says, “various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.” This phrase is important as it indicates that communication channels between the Holy See and the Lefebvrians remain open. Some in the Vatican and in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith called for a drastic decision to bring about a formal split between the two again. But Francis does not intend to close the door on dialogue with the Fraternity.

 Readers will recall that on 13 June 2012, the former Prefect of the Holy Office, Cardinal William Levada, had delivered a doctrinal preamble to Fellay to sign. However, four days later, the Lefebvrian superior wrote a letter to Benedict XVI informing him that he could not agree to the terms laid out in the document. Benedict XVI replied on 30 June 2012 communicating his disappointment and repeating his request to the Lefebvrians to recognize that “the magisterium is the authentic interpreter of the Tradition,” that the Second Vatican Council agrees with Tradition and that the Novus Ordo Missae, the post-conciliar liturgical reform promulgated by Paul VI, was not only valid but also legitimate.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/fe...

[Dawn Marie]

Sue you don't honestly believe that trumped up hype do you?

• The evidence is clear
• There has been no period of promised peace, and Mary always keeps her word, no matter how rotten we are.
• Russia has indeed spread her errors (of communism)
• Most countries including the U.S. have fallen to communism or are quickly on their way
• Russia has not converted...this is an obvious big one
• Sister Lucia made it clear Our Lady's request was and is not fulfilled by consecrating the world to her Heart
• If the world is to have a period of peace men would naturally need to convert, or at the very least Rome would have to convert....Rome is more evil than ever before.
• Mary keeps her word exactly as she speaks it not a jot or a tittle more or less, regardless of our stupidity at not at first, second or even third listening to her.
• All anyone need do is open their eyes and look around them to see we are drowning in evidence that Russia was not consecrated.  If you believe it was done as Heaven asked and Heaven was pleased then it stands to reason you must also then believe Our Holy Mother is deceitful when she speaks...offering promises she never delivered and we all know this is not possible nor right.  Mary does not deceive and when she promises she keeps her word.

[Lily Paladin]

I think it's important to mention that Pope Pius XII possibly consecrated Russia to the Immmaculate Heart on July 7, 1952.

So it might be later than we think.

 

Here are the words of Pope Pius XII:

 

Pope Pius XII, Sacro Vergente Anno (Apostolic Letter), July 7, 1952: “…just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…”

Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 1, p. 498: “…in 1952.  On July 7 of the same year, a month after the article by Dhanis, Pope Pius XII in his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno, accomplished this consecration of Russia and it alone, by name – so much for Dhanis declaring it impossible!” (Immaculate Heart Publications)

 

Mark Fellows, Fatima in Twilight, p. 119: “The letter went on to request that Pius consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart.  He [Pius XII] did so in a letter to all Russians (Sacro vergente anno), writing in pertinent part, ‘today we consecrate and in a most special manner entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…’” (Marmion Publications, 2003)

[Dawn Marie]

Regardless of what he said or didn't say he consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart with a mention of Russia and not in union with the other bishops but by himself.  According to Lucia this was "nice" but not acceptable to fulfill what Our Lady requested.

It would be great if you or Sue could address what I bulleted above, point by point ;)

Lily Paladin said:

I think it's important to mention that Pope Pius XII possibly consecrated Russia to the Immmaculate Heart on July 7, 1952.

So it might be later than we think.

 

[David Kaftal]

If by some miracle a future conclave selects a Catholic pope, the consecration of Russia could be a good way to get rid of all the rotten bishops in one fell swoop. All the pope would have to do would be to announce that any bishop who does not participate would be automatically stripped of his jurisdiction and suspended from all of all of his bishop-related functions. (I'm just thinking out loud, but it seems like a good idea to me right now... I never finished my coffee this morning, however...)

[Gloria]

Wow David if only this would happen.  

[Dawn Marie]

I didn't write this sentence Matthew, in fact it is the first I'm seeing it.  So far everyone seems to be being very courteous.  But I expect that from the Crusaders, they usually always act like good Catholics even when we do not agree.

 ( "Oh please, Gendzwill, will you stop flattering yourself!)

(Sorry, I didn't realize my husband had not signed out of his account and I originally posted this under his, for those who get email alerts.)

[Dawn Marie]

No there is no respect for the Russian Orthodox at this time, they remain in the state of excommunication, cut off from God.  Vladimir Putim in the end so it seems is just another player in the new world order.  He is not converted, neither is Russia. THE END.  :)

[Dawn Marie]

Yes Our Lady will intercede for her Russian children, when the pope consecrates Russia last and finally :)  That's why we are here, to pray in union for that to happen+as soon as possible.

Matthew Joseph Michael Gendzwill said:

     Yes, but I still have more respect for Ole' Vlad.  And are there not many faithful of that "church" who love Our Lady?  Will she not intercede for her children?  

     But Russia has not been consecrated.  But is She not the Mediatrix of all Grace.  We live within the confines of time.  

[Alley]

Matthew, Putin is not converted HE detests Our Lady at this present time

(who knows he could be one of the few leaders converted). Putin is putting

on an ACT to appear as the good guy. So that his take over will probably

go smoother. Putin knows how to play the game and play it well.

  
 
Matthew Joseph Michael Gendzwill said:

     Yes, but I still have more respect for Ole' Vlad.  And are there not many faithful of that "church" who love Our Lady?  Will she not intercede for her children?  

     But Russia has not been consecrated.  But is She not the Mediatrix of all Grace.  We live within the confines of time.  

[Alley]

I'm not sure if anyone noticed but there was no change over of Government in Russia 1991.

There was a play of sorts outside to make the world think there was.

But the same people who were in control of the government before

the democratic change over were the same people who were there after.

Normally there are hearings and arrests etc... They just had a dramatic change

of heart lol.

And the people of the world fell for it hook line and sinker!

The Governments, however knew/know the right of it.

 
Adrienne said:

WOA, PArt'ner! Let's see:

1. The Blessed Mother IS The Mediatrix of all graces! That was planned as a schema at Vatican II to be simply rubber stamped as DOGMA - but, it was chucked by the German Block, including and a main 'player/periti = Fr. Ratzinger. Yep. Pope #2 himself. That was always believed; just never proclaimed by a Pope yet. 

ALSO:

It can be very confusing to people - reading more about the dual excommunications of Rome & The Eastern Church will help.
 BTW: The Russian "Orthodox" from what I understand are KGB. Whatever happened to them? these are their heirs. Putin' is tooting' a false game of,...'let's be holy christians (NOT) and be friends to the West (NOT). ' Russia has been experimenting with skeilar energy since 1960. They are false and they are armed.  No respect deserved.

Matthew Joseph Michael Gendzwill said:

     Yes, but I still have more respect for Ole' Vlad.  And are there not many faithful of that "church" who love Our Lady?  Will she not intercede for her children?  

     But Russia has not been consecrated.  But is She not the Mediatrix of all Grace.  We live within the confines of time.  

[Lily Paladin]

Dear Adrienne and Dawn Marie,

I agree with you.  Pope Pius XII did not consecrate Russia in union with all the Bishops, but Pope Pius XII specifically consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Our Lady requested that Russia be consecrated in union with all the Bishops of the world, but on July 13 she only promised that “In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph.  The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and it will be converted and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world.”  Notice that Our Lady didn’t promise: “The Holy Father and all the Bishops will consecrate Russia to me…”  Further, heaven revealed that the actual fulfillment of the consecration of Russia would not be fully in accord with heaven’s original wishes; for instance, it would be “late”.  In addition, as one can see from Proverbs 16:7- “When the ways of man shall please the Lord, He will convert even his enemies to peace.” So the conversion could just be a period of peace after the consecration.  

 

[Dawn Marie]

Dear Lily,

I have read what you wrote but to me you seem to be over thinking things.

The message of Fatima, the messages given by Our Lord and Lady, the requests, the warnings, and the miracle of the sun even are all very clear, very cut and dry.

If I may...

She said the Holy Father, that does not mean only the Holy Father.  In the scheme of all of this he is obviously the most important player.  The bishops can not consecrate Russia without him.  No one can actually fulfill what Our Lady requested EXCEPT the Holy Father.

What she requested was that he in union with all the bishops of the world consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart at the same time...in union.  So it makes sense that she would say "The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me...."  That the bishops must do it in union is naturally implied.

As for the second part of which you speak, Heaven did not say it would not be fulfilled as they requested only that it would be late, there is a world of difference.  She did not say..."They will do it but not as I asked".   She just said it would in the end be done but it would be late.

Thirdly Fatima is like nothing else the world has ever seen.  It is considered not simply a private revelation which can be ignored, but what is called a public revelation because of the greatness of the miracle of the sun which Our Lady gave as a sign that it was indeed from Heaven.  because this sign was witnessed by over 70,000 people it puts Fatima in a category by itself, a higher category than any other private revelation.

Lastly, it must b remembered that everything is at stake here.  It is no small thing to say "If my requests are not granted entire nations will be annihilated, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, the good will be martyred etc."

This is quite an off the scales punishment for not doing as she asked.  Sister Lucia was clear, what has been done thus far is not what Mary asked for, albeit it did bring down a certain blessings from Heaven.

Also Our Lord was very clear as to why He wanted this done in this way.  Because He wished to show the world the greatness of His Mother and that when this is shown it will put devotion to Her Immaculate Heart beside devotion to His Sacred Heart.  He wishes to raise His Mother up even higher-right next to Him at least as we understand it here on earth by way of devotion to Her Immaculate Heart.  She is of course already right next to Him, but she is not as far as devotion to her Immaculate Heart is concerned here on earth.

The Lord God and His Holy Mother have been so clear about all of this from day one.  They gave the warnings and now after nearly 100 years we are living what they said would happen if what they asked for was not done.

There is no grey area here.  It is not done at all, Russia is not converted, the world has no peace, the good are being martyred and now we await the annihilation of nations and the rest which is to follow.

When it is done according as they asked 75 or 100 years will not have passed before we see Heaven answer.  They will answer rapidly because God wishes the world to know that it is because of this act that the graces of Heaven will follow.  He would not wait to give such graces because men are stupid and would say that other reasons were why the graces came, they would not attribute it to Mary.

Besides history shows, when Mary is involved God works quickly

In Response to a Conference Given by His Excellency Bishop Fellay

LINK HERE

God bless you dear Lily+