The Traditional Mass vs. The New Mass: A Doctrinal Comparison - Crusaders of the Immaculate Heart2024-03-29T10:00:15Zhttps://op54rosary.ning.com/forum/topics/the-traditional-mass-vs-the-ne?commentId=5691517%3AComment%3A28519&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks D tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2020-11-28:5691517:Comment:7697422020-11-28T00:23:23.364ZAlleyhttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/AlleyAlderete549
<p>Thanks D </p>
<p>Thanks D </p> Thanks for this!
Dawn Marie…tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2020-11-25:5691517:Comment:7676612020-11-25T02:04:28.809Znellie smithhttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/nelliesmith
<p>Thanks for this!</p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Dawn Marie said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://op54rosary.ning.com/forum/topics/the-traditional-mass-vs-the-ne#5691517Comment28519"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>33 Reasons Why, In Good Conscience We Cannot Attend The New Mass</strong></em></span><br></br><br></br><br></br><em><strong>1) Because the new mass is not an unequivocal proffession of Catholic Faith(which the traditional Mass is), it is…</strong></em></div>
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<p>Thanks for this!</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Dawn Marie said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://op54rosary.ning.com/forum/topics/the-traditional-mass-vs-the-ne#5691517Comment28519"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>33 Reasons Why, In Good Conscience We Cannot Attend The New Mass</strong></em></span><br/><br/><br/><em><strong>1) Because the new mass is not an unequivocal proffession of Catholic Faith(which the traditional Mass is), it is ambiguous and Protestant. Therefore since we pray as we believe it follows that we can not pray with the new mass in Protestant fashion and still believe as Catholics!</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>2) Because the new mass leads us to think that truth can be changed or ignored without fidelity to that sacred deposit of doctrine to which the Catholics Faith is bound forever.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>3) Because the new mass represents "a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as formulated in session XXII of the Council of Trent" which, in fixing the "canons", provided an "insurmountable barrier to any heresy against the integrity of the Mystery"</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>4) Because "Recent reforms have amply demonstrated that fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment in the faithful who already show signs of uneasiness and lessening of faith.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>5) Because in less then 7 years after introduction of the new mass priests in the world decreased from 413,438 to 243,307 almost 50%. (Holy See Statistics)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>6) Because of pastoral reasons adduced to support such as grave break with tradition do not seem to us sufficent.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>7) Because the new mass does not manifest Faith in the Real Presence of our Lord the traditional Mass manifests it unmistakably.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>8) Because the new mass confuses the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist with His Mystical Presence among us. (proximating Protestant doctrine)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>9) Because the new mass blurrs what ought to be a sharp difference between the HEIRARCHIC Priesthood and the common priesthood of the people. (as does Protestanism)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>10) Because the new mass favors the heritical theory that is the Faith of the people and not The Words of the priest. Which makes Christ Presence in the Eucharist.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>11) Because the new mass does away with the confiteor of the priest, makes it collective with the people, thus promoting Luther's refusal to accept the Catholic teachings that the priest is judge, witness and intercessor with God.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>12) Because the new mass gives us to understand that the people concelebrate with the priest, which is against Catholic theology.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>13) Because just as Luther did away with the Offertory since it very clearly expressed the sacrificial, propitiatory Character of the Mass-so also the new mass did away with it, reducing it to a simple preparation of the gifts.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>14) Because the narrative manner of consecration of the new mass infers that it is only a memorial and not a true sacrifice. (Protestant Thesis)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>15) Because by grave omissions, the new mass leads us to believe that it is only a meal (Protestant doctrine) and not a sacrifice for the remission of sins (Catholic Doctrine).</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>16) Because the changes such as table instead of Altar, facing people instead of Tabernacle, Communion in the hand etc, emphasize Protestant doctrines(e.g. Mass is only a meal,priest only a president of the assembly etc.).</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>17) Because we are faced with a dilemna: either we becaome Protestanized by worshipping with the new mass , or else we preserve our Catholic Faith by adhering faithfully to the traditional Mass of All Time.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>18) Because the new mass contains ambiguous subtly favoring heresy, which is more dangersous then if it were clearly heretical since a half-heresy half resembles the truth!</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>19) Because the nature of the new mass is such as to facilitate profanations of the Holy Eucharist, which occur with a frequency unheard of with the traditional Mass.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>20) Because by introducing optional variations, the new mass undermines the unity of the liturgy, with each priest liable to deviate as he fancies under the guise of creativity. Disorder inevitably results, accompanied by lack of respect and by irreverence.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>21) Because many good Catholic theologians, canonists and priests do not accept the new mass and affrm that they are unable to celebrate it in good conscience.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>22) Because along with the new mass goes also a new catechism, a new morality, new prayers, new ideas, new calandars-in a word, a New Church, a complete revolution from the old. "The liturgical reform...do not be decieved, this is where the revolution begins." (Msgr. Dwyer, Archbishop of Birmingham, spokesman of the Episcopal Synod)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>23) Because the intrinsic beauty of the traditional Mass attracts souls by itself; whereas the new mass, lacking any attractivenes of it's own, has to invent novelties and entertainments in order to appeal to the people.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>24) Because the new mass attempts to transform the Catholic Church into a new, ecumenical Church embracing all ideologies and all religons-right and wrong, truth and error- a goal long dreamt of by the enemies of the Catholic Church.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>25) Because the Altar and Tabernacle are now separated, thus marking a division between Christ in His priest-and -Sacrifice-on-the-Altar, from Christ in His Real Presence in the tabernacle, "two things which of their very nature, must remain together".(Pius XII)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>26) Because the new mass, although appearing to conform to the dispositions of Vatican Council II in reality opposes it's instructions, since the Council declared it's desire to conserve and promote the Traditional Rite.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>27) Because Pope Saint Pius the V granted a perpetual indult, valid "for always" to celebrate the traditional Mass freely, licitly, without scruple of conscience, punishment, sentence or censure(Papal Bull"Quo Primum")</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>28) Because Pope paul the VI, when promulgating the new mass, himself declared, "The Rite...by itself is NOT a dogmatic definition...( 11-19-1969)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>29) Because in none of the three new Eucharistic Prayers of the new mass, is there any reference...to the state of suffering of those who have died, in none the possibility of a particular Memento, thus undermining faith in the redemptive nature of the Sacrifice.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>30) Because we recognize the Holy Father's supreme authority in his universal government of Holy Mother Church, BUT we know that even this authority cannot impose upon us a practice which is so clearly against the Faith: a mass that is equivicol and favoring heresy and therefore disagreeable to God.</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>31) Because as stated in Vatican Council I, the "Holy Spirit was not promised to the succesors of Peter, that by His revelation they might make new doctrine, but that by His assistance they might invioably keep and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith delivered through the Apostles".</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>32) Because heresy, or whatever clearly favors heresy, cannot be matter for obedience. Obedience is at the service of Faith and not Faith at the service of obedience! In this foregoing case then, "One must obey God before men". (Acts of the Apostles 5,29)</strong></em><br/><br/><em><strong>33.) Because: "...By this our decree, to be valid IN PERPETUITY, we determine and order that NEVER shall anything be added to, omitted from, or changed in this Missal..."</strong></em><br/><em><strong>Pope Saint Pius the V</strong></em><br/><em><strong>Quo Primum</strong></em><br/><em><strong>July 19th, 1570 </strong></em><br/><br/><br/><em><strong>Excerpt from the SSPX pamphlet "Why The Traditional Latin Mass? Why Not The New?</strong></em></div>
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</blockquote> Thank you and God bless you f…tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2019-10-12:5691517:Comment:5850762019-10-12T21:27:51.643ZJohn Alexanderhttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/JohnAlexander
Thank you and God bless you for your effort.
Thank you and God bless you for your effort. Please feel free to share wha…tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2019-10-11:5691517:Comment:5846332019-10-11T17:35:51.779ZDawn Mariehttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/DawnMarie
<p>Please feel free to share whatever you want.<br/> <br/> <cite>John Alexander said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://op54rosary.ning.com/forum/topics/the-traditional-mass-vs-the-ne?commentId=5691517%3AComment%3A584528&xg_source=msg_com_forum#5691517Comment584528"><div><p>May I publish it on this website:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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<p>Please feel free to share whatever you want.<br/> <br/> <cite>John Alexander said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://op54rosary.ning.com/forum/topics/the-traditional-mass-vs-the-ne?commentId=5691517%3AComment%3A584528&xg_source=msg_com_forum#5691517Comment584528"><div><p>May I publish it on this website:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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</blockquote> May I publish it on this webs…tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2019-10-11:5691517:Comment:5845282019-10-11T12:08:41.026ZJohn Alexanderhttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/JohnAlexander
<p>May I publish it on this website:</p>
<p><a href="https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/</a></p>
<p>May I publish it on this website:</p>
<p><a href="https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">https://fsspxranglia.wordpress.com/</a></p> hmm we have issues with those…tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2015-02-20:5691517:Comment:2320122015-02-20T14:01:45.097ZJoseph Oghenevwede Igbeyihttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/JosephOghenevwedeIgbeyi
<p>hmm we have issues with those who broke away from sspx in order to be unified with rome and are now saying indult Masses and even Novus ordo Masses sometimes</p>
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<p>hmm we have issues with those who broke away from sspx in order to be unified with rome and are now saying indult Masses and even Novus ordo Masses sometimes</p>
<p></p> tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2015-02-07:5691517:Comment:2300972015-02-07T17:14:37.868ZDawn Mariehttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/DawnMarie
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2174517252?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2174517252?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2174517252?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2174517252?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p> My apologies - the Fraternity…tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2015-02-06:5691517:Comment:2301282015-02-06T21:51:08.278ZKate Jacksonhttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/KateJackson
My apologies - the Fraternity Priest was being obedient to his bishop. And the community in Ireland was called St Kevin not st Johns! Nugggggh
My apologies - the Fraternity Priest was being obedient to his bishop. And the community in Ireland was called St Kevin not st Johns! Nugggggh Pressed send too quicklytag:op54rosary.ning.com,2015-02-06:5691517:Comment:2301272015-02-06T21:48:39.552ZKate Jacksonhttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/KateJackson
Pressed send too quickly
Pressed send too quickly From the DOMINICANS AVRILLE
(…tag:op54rosary.ning.com,2015-01-25:5691517:Comment:2285612015-01-25T17:15:35.312ZDawn Mariehttps://op54rosary.ning.com/profile/DawnMarie
<h1 align="center" lang="en-US" style="text-align: left;" xml:lang="en-US"><a href="http://www.dominicansavrille.us/indult-masses-archbishop-lefebvre-think/" target="_blank">From the DOMINICANS AVRILLE</a></h1>
<h1 align="center" lang="en-US" style="text-align: left;" xml:lang="en-US">(great post Katie, ty, for sharing)</h1>
<h1 align="center" lang="en-US" style="text-align: left;" xml:lang="en-US">A Letter from Archbishop Lefebvre, regarding Indult Masses…</h1>
<p align="justify"></p>
<h1 style="text-align: left;" align="center" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US"><a href="http://www.dominicansavrille.us/indult-masses-archbishop-lefebvre-think/" target="_blank">From the DOMINICANS AVRILLE</a></h1>
<h1 style="text-align: left;" align="center" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">(great post Katie, ty, for sharing)</h1>
<h1 style="text-align: left;" align="center" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">A Letter from Archbishop Lefebvre, regarding Indult Masses</h1>
<p align="justify"><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">Let us put this document in context: It was written several months after “Operation Survival,” the consecration of the four bishops on 30 June 1988, which was accomplished not only without the approval of Pope John Paul II, but also against his will. The Fraternity of St. Peter was created the day following the consecrations, and conciliar Rome was busy trying to ‘pull in’ the more or less traditional Catholics.</span></p>
<p align="justify"><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">It is always good to reread Archbishop Lefebvre, particularly in order to understand that beyond some conciliatory steps and words towards the supreme authority (of the Church), he was not fooled. He was well aware of the Fight for the Faith that (unfortunately) it was necessary to lead against this authority.</span></p>
<p align="justify">Here is the text of his letter [bold emphasis is added by us]:</p>
<hr/><p align="justify"><em><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">Saint-Michel en Brenne</span><span lang="fr-FR" xml:lang="fr-FR">, 18 March 1989</span></em></p>
<p align="justify"><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">I am responding immediately to your kind letter which I received yesterday at Saint-Michel</span><strong><sup><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US"><a href="http://www.dominicansavrille.us/indult-masses-archbishop-lefebvre-think/#sdfootnote1sym" name="sdfootnote1anc" id="sdfootnote1anc">1</a></span></sup></strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">, to tell you what I think about those priests who have received a “</span>celebret<span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">” from the</span> <strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">Roman Commission</span><sup><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US"><a href="http://www.dominicansavrille.us/indult-masses-archbishop-lefebvre-think/#sdfootnote2sym" name="sdfootnote2anc" id="sdfootnote2anc">2</a></span></sup> <span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">charged with dividing and destroying us</span></strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US"><strong>.</strong></span></p>
<p align="justify"><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">It is evident that</span> <strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">by putting themselves in the hands of the current conciliar authorities, they are implicitly accepting the Council and the ensuing reforms</span></strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">, even if they have received some privileges which remain exceptional and provisory.</span></p>
<p align="justify"><strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">Their speech is paralyzed because of this acceptance</span></strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US"><strong>.</strong> The bishops are watching them! It is very regrettable that</span> <strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">these priests are not aware of this reality</span></strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">. But we cannot fool the faithful.</span></p>
<p align="justify"><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">The same may be said regarding these “traditional Masses” organized by the dioceses. They are celebrated between two conciliar masses. The celebrating priest says the new as well as the old. How, and by whom is Holy Communion distributed? What will the sermon be? etc.</span></p>
<p align="justify"><strong><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">These masses are scams</span></strong> <span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">which lead the faithful to compromise their principles! Many have already abandoned them.</span></p>
<p align="justify" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US"><strong>What must change is their liberal and modernist doctrine. We must arm ourselves with patience and pray. God’s hour will come.</strong></p>
<p align="justify"><span lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">God’s blessings to you on this holy feast of Easter.</span></p>
<p align="justify" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">Best regards to you in Christ and Mary.</p>
<p align="justify" lang="en-US" xml:lang="en-US">Abp. Lefebvre</p>