Fellay and Müller discuss a “gradual” move towards full reconciliation

Fellay and Müller discuss a “gradual” move towards full reconciliation

The meeting between the Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X and the heads of the Ecclesia Dei Commission lasted two hours. The Secretary of the former Holy office, Luis Ladaria, was also present.

Their meeting lasted two hours, from 11a.m. to 1 p.m. CET. The Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X, Bishop Bernard Fellay and Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and President of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei” (the body that handles relations between the Holy See’s and the Lefebvrians), discussed “problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature” which need to be resolved in order for the Fraternity to enter into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church.  This was the first time Fellay held a face to face meeting with Müller since the latter was appointed head of the doctrinal Congregation. The Holy See announced the meeting, which took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

 The Holy See’s press release informs that the talks were “cordial”. Müller was joined by archbishops Luis Ladaria and Augustine Di Noia, respectively secretary and adjunct secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithand Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”. Bishop Fellay was accompanied by two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.

 During the meeting,” the statement says, “various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.” This phrase is important as it indicates that communication channels between the Holy See and the Lefebvrians remain open. Some in the Vatican and in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith called for a drastic decision to bring about a formal split between the two again. But Francis does not intend to close the door on dialogue with the Fraternity.

 Readers will recall that on 13 June 2012, the former Prefect of the Holy Office, Cardinal William Levada, had delivered a doctrinal preamble to Fellay to sign. However, four days later, the Lefebvrian superior wrote a letter to Benedict XVI informing him that he could not agree to the terms laid out in the document. Benedict XVI replied on 30 June 2012 communicating his disappointment and repeating his request to the Lefebvrians to recognize that “the magisterium is the authentic interpreter of the Tradition,” that the Second Vatican Council agrees with Tradition and that the Novus Ordo Missae, the post-conciliar liturgical reform promulgated by Paul VI, was not only valid but also legitimate.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/fe...

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Alley hit the nail on the head with her comments about Francis and the whole VII mess we live with. I was very fortunate that my mom pulled me out of the modernist church back in the late 1960's. She and some of her lady friends saw what was going to happen to the Church once the new ideas of VII were to be implemented. Because of the strong faith of my mother I have never had the misfortune of going to the Novus Ordo or being part of the NewChurch. I once heard a talk given by a traditional priest in the 1970's that the modernist would say that the Latin Mass could be used again for those who felt the need (Motu Proprio of Benedict XVI) but nothing else would change, that the modernist heresies would still be the direction they would follow, the New Mess would not go away and all of what he said has happened.  

The Motu Proprio is only a ruse to deceive the elect. I remember a SPPX priest came up to me and said that  the Motu was a wonderful thing and that the Latin Mass would be opened for the whole world. I wonder if he really read what it said, it was never intended for the whole world, it never says that. It says the Latin Mass can be brought into the mainstream, using lectures and the new calendar, the first thing that was done afterward was to change the Good Friday liturgy. Is that going back to tradition?

If Bishop Fellay allows the SPPX priests, religious and all of its followers back into the VII fold, it won't be too long before their confessions, sermons and beliefs will change.  

I'm glad you're not upset Matthew, :)  I'm also not frantic lol I'm pretty even tempered but remember I am female

and very passionate about my Holy Catholic Faith.

Who do I think is in charge? Of the Vatican? The devil is.

Matthew Joseph Michael Gendzwill said:

     It doesn't upset me.  Easy does it.  It sounds pretty frantic but.....  Who do you think is in charge?  

Dawn Marie said:

Amen Alley, wow, really well said. 

Alley said:

I'm not a Theologian, I may not be looking at things the same way

as many of you do but this is how I see it.

 

Our Lady to Marie Julie Jahenny "fight children of light."

That is what we must do fight, resist and if needs be die doing it!

The Pope has NOT consecrated Russia, and this Pope is worse than 

all of them put together. He doesn't even believe in Fatima or what

the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught for that matter.

BAD things are going to happen because Our Blessed Mother's

warning was not heeded, has NOT been fulfilled.

Now that being said, having any communication-dialog with this

unconverted Rome is suicide any way you look at it.

From what I read Rome thinks we SSPX are already under

their control now it is just a matter of convincing the good people of

the SSPX that they are the good guys and all the saints (prophecies)

were wrong not to mention Jesus and Mary.

It is just a matter of time before more bad things happen remember FSSP,

I'm sure they thought they would be the beaken that would convert

Rome and show them the errors of their ways. Hmmm

We need to pray for clarity for the graces to See what the truth is

to follow what the Catholic Church has always taught and nothing

coming from Rome is Catholic and we want to be united to That.

The bottom line is we must accept the new mass, it is not a mass at all

it is a mockery. We must accept the new teachings, for heavens sakes

they are rewriting a new moral code. That is saying right their that

GOD makes mistakes He really doesn't understand how things are. lol   

It does not take a theologian to recognize heresy or a saint to recognize

evil intent.

Even my teenagers can see through the play on words and their true meaning.

I'm sorry if this upsets anyone but the truth is the truth and Truth does not

change God is already Perfect He does not evolve, He does not change.

If we went and joined Rome we would change.   



Alley said:


Our Lady to Marie Julie Jahenny "fight children of light."

That is what we must do fight, resist and if needs be die doing it!

One cannot fight without meeting the enemy.

The Pope has NOT consecrated Russia, and this Pope is worse than 

all of them put together. He doesn't even believe in Fatima or what

the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught for that matter.

BAD things are going to happen because Our Blessed Mother's

warning was not heeded, has NOT been fulfilled.

No.

Now that being said, having any communication-dialog with this

unconverted Rome is suicide any way you look at it.

From what I read Rome thinks we SSPX are already under

their control now it is just a matter of convincing the good people of

the SSPX that they are the good guys and all the saints (prophecies)

were wrong not to mention Jesus and Mary.

Is what Rome thinks the truth ?

I am very impressed to see how fast the minds are changing in France.

For example, more and more people want christian roots of France to be remembered and brought back.

For the moment, there are only little scattered mouvements : recently, before the feria in Beziers, the Mayor organised a mass in the arena (don't shout !! lol) with 5000 thousand people who agreed. There were even muslims...

More and more people are saying that catholic Monarchy was better than Republic (unbelievable ! but true).

Many many catholics do not despise any more the FSSPX...

It is not worth to dialog with the cardinal stroking a parrot girl, (but... who knows ???)  but it is possible to dialog with ordinary catholics, who are obedient to the Church and are not conscious of what is going on...

Perhaps I mistake, because the situation is very tense and dangerous,  (the population in near to be changed, european population, aging, is dissapearing quite quickly) but hiding in a mouse hole wont help, I believe.


St. Joseph , you listened to the Angel and led the Blessed Mother and Jesus to safety;  lead us  and  keep us  safe on this unpleasant and difficult path  of staying true to our Catholic Faith ,as the saints did when they were tested and how we are being tested now.

Nadia the SSPX already had two years worth of discussions with Rome, it ended with Rome throwing up their hands in disgust at the dogmas and doctrines of the Catholic Faith the Society set before them and asked them to accept.

Rome said in the end concerning DOGMA AND DOCTRINE "we must agree to disagree".

Kindly don't act as though this has not already happened and failed.  The Society went in presented the Truth and Rome rejected it flat out.

To go back again with the desire of wishing to be placed under the authority of these apostate heretics goes past moronic and heads into the realm of downright insane.

The first time around it failed and the SSPX was split into shreds of division all over the place with good priests, good faithful and one good bishop paying a heavy price at the hands of Bp. Fellay.

This is not o.k., it is clear, your thinking in this matter is muddled and confused.

I've said this before, I'll say it again, Bp. Fellay told me himself in May of 2011 that the talks had failed, Rome was not converted.

Two years of talks, 4 Rosary Crusades later the SSPX fails to convert Rome...NOW when things are even worse and the greatest heretic of all time is sitting on Peter's Throne, one who spouts nothing but apostasy and heresy, the SSPX wishes to go back again, looking once more to be put under them.

Last time I prayed Jesus and Mary protect us, this time I pray He gives the Society exactly what they are asking for.  Maybe last and finally that will be what wakes the SSPX up.

The Enemy IS the devil and all his minions.

Pope Francis' actions speak for themselves, Russia has not been converted

plain and simple.

I don't believe there is any truth left in Rome. My opinion. 

To clarify, Pope Francis has not spoken any Catholic Truth since he became Pope.

He has made up his own truth which does not in any way, shape or form resemble

what the Catholic Church has always taught.


Really, Matthew, the Remnant gone Radical Trad?!  I'll have to take a look, haven't followed the Remnant for  awhile. That would be nice to see them with a bit more bite. Maybe Pope Francis, in the end, will inadvertently convert a few folks to the faith, (the traditional faith of St. Pius X and the Communion of Saints, as if we need to clarify!- tiresome-), before the purification that Sr. Lucia foresaw on Jan. 3, 1944, comes to be.
Matthew Joseph Michael Gendzwill said:


     know it!!  This tends to be....consternating.  

     Rorate Caeli has a post about Kasper and so does DICI.  You know, I've read some really solid stuff:  I Accuse the Council; An Open Letter to Confused Catholics; Against the Heresies; An Autobiography of Marcel Lefebvre; The Rhine Flows into the Tiber; The Davies Trilogy; Iota Unum; The Second Vatican Council: An Untold Story and on and on...  Plus I get CFN every month and the Remnant has gotten quite out of hand as a Radical Traditionalist Periodical :)  

     I catch myself thinking, though, that Rome  could convert....  I know they're not going there.  The german bishops have formed a block, again, as they did in the several years leading up to VII.  

     There must be an end to attain which God has for all of this.

     
Alley said:

To clarify, Pope Francis has not spoken any Catholic Truth since he became Pope.

He has made up his own truth which does not in any way, shape or form resemble

what the Catholic Church has always taught.


My husband and I subscribed to The Wanderer for years, and the Remnant, and Catholic Family News...he, Ron, especially, is a real reader.  Have you read or listened to any of the material at True Restoration? They are sedevacantists, (I'm not), but they have a storehouse of information and news discussions. (Francis Watch is great)

No, the demons aren't yet showing themselves in form, but they sure are in act! As Sr. Lucy said, "we are moving little by little in great strides to the fulfillment of the 3rd secret".  So, just imagine the next 10 or so steps!  

I sure enjoy your comments, Matthew, and I did watch the Remnant clip; someone there has a neat sense of humor! (I'm not holding my breath over this Bishop Fellay meeting, he holds all the cards and knows what the Vatican did to the Franciscans, Bishop Burke, et al, and the Oktoberfest synod-disaster down-the-road. I'll eat my mantilla if he caves.)


Matthew Joseph Michael Gendzwill said:

     The Remnant, epecially after the election of the Bishop of Rome, has published some decidedly pugnacious articles, even though the following may not seem to be one of them: 

Remnant TV's Reel Answers:

Bishop Fellay & The Outlaw Josey Wales

After what just happened to the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, can the Vatican be trusted to give the SSPX a fair deal? http://youtu.be/LsfXK4XZtWs  

 

      But I am not now willing to agree that BP Fellay is about to agree with these guys in Germany or in Rome.  

     Chris Ferrera and John Salza (who has assisted the Mass at St. Pius V in Mukwonago, a decidedly "Resistive" lot of Roman Catholics), contribute to Matt's journal.  One should read each of these just to see if they aren't like scalpels. 

     The meteors haven't yet fallen nor have the demons prowled in the blackness of noon.  I know our Mother listens to the prayers of each ardent soul.  That is why I am happy to be here on this site though I am willing to hope that indeed there may be a shift in virtue of the increasing episcopal heresy. 


Sue K said:


Really, Matthew, the Remnant gone Radical Trad?!  I'll have to take a look, haven't followed the Remnant for  awhile. That would be nice to see them with a bit more bite. Maybe Pope Francis, in the end, will inadvertently convert a few folks to the faith, (the traditional faith of St. Pius X and the Communion of Saints, as if we need to clarify!- tiresome-), before the purification that Sr. Lucia foresaw on Jan. 3, 1944, comes to be.
Matthew Joseph Michael Gendzwill said:


     know it!!  This tends to be....consternating.  

     Rorate Caeli has a post about Kasper and so does DICI.  You know, I've read some really solid stuff:  I Accuse the Council; An Open Letter to Confused Catholics; Against the Heresies; An Autobiography of Marcel Lefebvre; The Rhine Flows into the Tiber; The Davies Trilogy; Iota Unum; The Second Vatican Council: An Untold Story and on and on...  Plus I get CFN every month and the Remnant has gotten quite out of hand as a Radical Traditionalist Periodical :)  

     I catch myself thinking, though, that Rome  could convert....  I know they're not going there.  The german bishops have formed a block, again, as they did in the several years leading up to VII.  

     There must be an end to attain which God has for all of this.

     
Alley said:

To clarify, Pope Francis has not spoken any Catholic Truth since he became Pope.

He has made up his own truth which does not in any way, shape or form resemble

what the Catholic Church has always taught.

Sadly as it sounds, in last Sunday´s masses at the SSPX not a single word was said about this. Neither to support nor to condemn. This makes me think that our priests are following Bp. Fellay willingly, because they want to, and not because they´ve been deceived. I still had hope that they would stand up and defend the truth, but they seem to be right where they belong. As Father David Hewko has said, they´ve changed their boxing gloves for ballet shoes. And with them, so many lay men that have chosen to follow their priests because they trust them. My heart is broken and my hope in them standing up to fight for the truth has suddenly burnt out to ashes.

Last  Sunday the SSPX priest spoke of the dire need for prayer and sacrifice for the synod. He also read a statement from Fr Wegner asking for a novena in this matter. It encouraged me a bit, but not enough. The SSPX should be shouting about this from the rooftops.

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