Fellay and Müller discuss a “gradual” move towards full reconciliation

Fellay and Müller discuss a “gradual” move towards full reconciliation

The meeting between the Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X and the heads of the Ecclesia Dei Commission lasted two hours. The Secretary of the former Holy office, Luis Ladaria, was also present.

Their meeting lasted two hours, from 11a.m. to 1 p.m. CET. The Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X, Bishop Bernard Fellay and Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and President of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei” (the body that handles relations between the Holy See’s and the Lefebvrians), discussed “problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature” which need to be resolved in order for the Fraternity to enter into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church.  This was the first time Fellay held a face to face meeting with Müller since the latter was appointed head of the doctrinal Congregation. The Holy See announced the meeting, which took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

 The Holy See’s press release informs that the talks were “cordial”. Müller was joined by archbishops Luis Ladaria and Augustine Di Noia, respectively secretary and adjunct secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithand Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”. Bishop Fellay was accompanied by two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.

 During the meeting,” the statement says, “various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.” This phrase is important as it indicates that communication channels between the Holy See and the Lefebvrians remain open. Some in the Vatican and in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith called for a drastic decision to bring about a formal split between the two again. But Francis does not intend to close the door on dialogue with the Fraternity.

 Readers will recall that on 13 June 2012, the former Prefect of the Holy Office, Cardinal William Levada, had delivered a doctrinal preamble to Fellay to sign. However, four days later, the Lefebvrian superior wrote a letter to Benedict XVI informing him that he could not agree to the terms laid out in the document. Benedict XVI replied on 30 June 2012 communicating his disappointment and repeating his request to the Lefebvrians to recognize that “the magisterium is the authentic interpreter of the Tradition,” that the Second Vatican Council agrees with Tradition and that the Novus Ordo Missae, the post-conciliar liturgical reform promulgated by Paul VI, was not only valid but also legitimate.

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Vraiment.

Furlan said:

Bizarre ce cardinal avec ces deux créatures...

From Rorate Caeli:

Understanding the Vatican Statement:
"SSPX Already is in 'Full Communion', but in a State of 'Imperfect Reconciliation'."

One of the wisest clerics in the traditional Catholic world, Father Claude Barthe, wrote a short note for the highly regarded French Catholic periodical L'Homme Nouveau on the Holy See communiqué on the meeting between Cardinal Müller and Bish.... He paid attention to the key words, as well as to words that are missing, and how they represent a high point in the evolution of relations between the Apostolic See and the Society of Saint Pius X.

Father Barthe, by the way, is the main chaplain of the remarkable Populus Summorum Pontificum pilgrimage to Rome, taking place a month from now -- if you can, please join it, there's still time.


The Society of Saint Pius X in a state of "Imperfect Reconciliation"
 
by Father Claude Barthe, on September 24, 2014

On the day following the meeting in Rome between Cardinal Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Bp. Fellay, Superior of the Society of Saint Pius X [FSSPX / SSPX], Father Claude Barthe was willing to provide us with his analysis of this event, and of its possible repercussions.

Towards a canonical recognition?

It was therefore yesterday, Tuesday, September 23, that, at the Palace of the Holy Office (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), took place the meeting that had been announced without a date between Cardinal Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and President of the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei", and Bishop Fellay, Superior-General of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX). Present in the meeting: on the side of the Congregation, Abp. Pozzo, Secretary of the Ecclesia Dei Commission, Abp. Ladaria, Secretary of the Congregation of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Abp. Di Noia, Adjunct Secretary; and on the side of the SSPX, Bp. Fellay's two assistants, Frs. Pfluger and Nély. The canonical recognition of the SSPX, in case it took place in the times ahead, would not have anymore the appearance and interest of an earthquake that it would have had within the Church at the end of the Benedict XVI pontificate. On the other hand, it has paradoxically become much easier to accomplish, from the moment the current pope - it's the least we can say - does not have the reputation of traditionalism that his predecessor did.

Several comments can be made:

- One notes a kind of solemnity given to the meeting by the Holy See that, after having kept hermetic silence on its date, had it followed by an official communiqué of the Press Office, in the form of a diplomatic document with duly considered terms.

- The second point is the return to the fore of the tiny Ecclesia Dei Commission and its Secretary, Abp. Pozzo. With the leaks that had made known the short interview of Bp. Fellay with the Pope, at Domus Sanctae Marthae, over six months ago, observers had reached the conclusion that discussions intending to grant a canonical status to the SSPX, interrupted in June 2012, had once again been established. The very Ratzingerian Abp. Pozzo shows himself to be an effective craftsman, having not hesitated, let us say, to pay [the price of] boldness in certain occasions.

- The content of today's [yesterday's] communiqué picks up, by the way, almost word by word [the contents] of the one of 2005. In 2005, "the meeting took place in an environment of love for the Church, and the desire to reach perfect communion. Though aware of the difficulties, the will was made clear to proceed by degrees, step by step, and in a reasonable time." Today [yesterday]: "it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation." We remark the difference: the qualification of the theological status of the SSPX is the object of a concept created for the occasion. Reaching "full communion" is not mentioned for it anymore, assimilating it by this fact, more or less, to the separated communities to which is reserved the expression "imperfect communion" (mistaken, by the way, because communion is not marked by degrees). But the communiqué states that the SSPX must find "full reconciliation". The SSPX, already in full communion, is not yet in full reconciliation.

- Regarding this, we recall that Cardinal Castrillón, when he was in charge of the dossier, was eager to affirm that the SSPX was not at all schismatic. We can venture the hypothesis, aware of the workings of the governance of Pope Francis, who loves to short-circuit the official paths of information in the Curia with those of his own, that the long verbal report made by Cardinal Castrillón to him in October 2013 had a great influence.

- The most important aspect unveiled by today's [yesterday's] communiqué is "political". It's clear that Abp. Pozzo could not have acted in this new phase, very discreet up to today, if not with the express approval of the Pope. According to the uses of the Holy See, and under Pope Francis more than ever, a communiqué of this nature receives his personal approval before publication. If we add that, in a recent so-called "secret" meeting of the Italian Episcopal Conference (CEI), presided by the Pope, that is, one of the CEI meetings that do not lead to informations to the press, the Pope, in response to a bishop's questions, affirmed that the regulations regarding the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum (the Apostolic Letter and the application Instruction [Universae Ecclesiae]) remained in force, we can say that we find ourselves here in the "continuity" portion of the current pontificate with that of Benedict XVI. Francis, the "Progressive", would not be unhappy if he succeeded there where Benedict the "Fundamentalist" failed.

- A major point remains surrounded by a profound mystery, unknown by all, including by those who are closest [to him]: what does Bp. Bernard Fellay wish to do, or, which is the same, what does he believe to be in a position to do?

[Source, in French. The somewhat informal tone was kept - slightly adapted where necessary for better comprehension.]

I'm going to wait to see what happens. H.E. Fellay doesn't sound too timid here.

Number 300

12-09-2014   
Filed under From TraditionNews

On the occasion of the appearance of the 300th issue of DICI, Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X, was so kind as to honor us with an editorial.  We thank him here for this sign of confidence in our magazine, which we find extremely moving!

The truth about current events

The psalms are a source of most interesting insights into the everlasting present.  Thus we read in Psalm XIII that God from all eternity “hath looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there be any that understand and seek God.”  And the psalmist’s response to this question inevitably makes us think of our times:  “There is none that doth good, no, not one.”  “They are all gone aside, they are become unprofitable altogether.”  Words which might be applied to present times….

“Unprofitable!”  So much for the dignity of man who does not even want to know that there is a God, and who would establish human society and drive it forward while omitting the Essential:  God, his Creator and Savior!  The psalmist does not hesitate an instant to describe fittingly this attitude:  such a man has lost his mind and his reason.  “The fool hath said in his heart:  There is no God.”

“Unprofitable!”  So much too for the autonomy of the temporal order, which is touted so much nowadays:  without referring to God, without looking for the objectively Good and True, man will never be able to obtain either peace or prosperity!  The rulers of the present moment revel in these words, while the elusiveness of the reality that they describe is felt ever more cruelly:  “The way of peace they have not known.  There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

How we wish that at least churchmen, the men of God, would remember these truths in their fullness, truths which provide, indeed, the only worthwhile interpretation of current events!  But the watchmen are silent…  they too are “unprofitable,” for the greatest misfortune of the Christian people and of the whole world.

Our most fervent desire, on the occasion of this 300th issue, is to see DICI continue to present current events not as the daily froth and foam that is inevitably blown away, but as the eternal plan of the God of love being accomplished:  “Et nos credidimus caritati.”

Bishop Bernard Fellay

That makes little sense to me.  Does it matter how he sounds there?  What someone says and what someone does are two different things.  In other words actions speak louder than words.

He "says" _____ fill in the blank, however he does meet with the heretic Mueller with the cordial agreement that the end in view is to move toward a reconciliation with Rome, i.e. to come under Rome gradually.  Both sides agree to this.

It can't possibly be made any clearer and by his own mouth.  What is there to wait and see?   I suppose if you don't mind having Francis and Mueller and DaNoia for superiors of the SSPX then there is no problem here, for those of us who understand what this means, it is a huge problem.

Wow!  This is indeed a war of attrition.  A masterful play on words here..."imperfectly reconciled".

This article is for those who have mush minds and sadly it will work on them :(

Let the games begin.  You will see more and more of this type of hype until people are completely subdued into compliance to come under an unconverted Rome.  Lest God shorten these days even His elect would be lost.  What an amazing time to live in.  Please God that we all make it.


Michael said:

From Rorate Caeli:

Understanding the Vatican Statement:
"SSPX Already is in 'Full Communion', but in a State of 'Imperfect Reconciliation'."


[Source, in French. The somewhat informal tone was kept - slightly adapted where necessary for better comprehension.]

Don't be too surprised. That's why they're called "weasel words"- cuz they come from the mouths of weasels...

And now they are luring (have lured) away the rooster who's supposed to be guarding the henhouse.  

Dawn Marie said:

Wow!  This is indeed a war of attrition.  A masterful play on words here..."imperfectly reconciled".

This article is for those who have mush minds and sadly it will work on them :(

Let the games begin.  You will see more and more of this type of hype until people are completely subdued into compliance to come under an unconverted Rome.  Lest God shorten these days even His elect would be lost.  What an amazing time to live in.  Please God that we all make it.


Michael said:

From Rorate Caeli:

Understanding the Vatican Statement:
"SSPX Already is in 'Full Communion', but in a State of 'Imperfect Reconciliation'."


[Source, in French. The somewhat informal tone was kept - slightly adapted where necessary for better comprehension.]

It is scaring and disconcerting, puzzling.

Anyway, I want to believe that Francis and Mueller and DaNoia are not about to be  superiors of the SSPX ...

Do you remember the prophecy of la Salette : "Rome sera détruite et deviendra le siège de l'Antéchrist" "Rome wil be destroyed and will become the headquarters of Antechrist".

And according to the prophecy of saint Malachie, pope Francis is the last pope.

Sommes-nous à "la fin des Temps" ?

I'm not a Theologian, I may not be looking at things the same way

as many of you do but this is how I see it.

 

Our Lady to Marie Julie Jahenny "fight children of light."

That is what we must do fight, resist and if needs be die doing it!

The Pope has NOT consecrated Russia, and this Pope is worse than 

all of them put together. He doesn't even believe in Fatima or what

the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught for that matter.

BAD things are going to happen because Our Blessed Mother's

warning was not heeded, has NOT been fulfilled.

Now that being said, having any communication-dialog with this

unconverted Rome is suicide any way you look at it.

From what I read Rome thinks we SSPX are already under

their control now it is just a matter of convincing the good people of

the SSPX that they are the good guys and all the saints (prophecies)

were wrong not to mention Jesus and Mary.

It is just a matter of time before more bad things happen remember FSSP,

I'm sure they thought they would be the beaken that would convert

Rome and show them the errors of their ways. Hmmm

We need to pray for clarity for the graces to See what the truth is

to follow what the Catholic Church has always taught and nothing

coming from Rome is Catholic and we want to be united to That.

The bottom line is we must accept the new mass, it is not a mass at all

it is a mockery. We must accept the new teachings, for heavens sakes

they are rewriting a new moral code. That is saying right their that

GOD makes mistakes He really doesn't understand how things are. lol   

It does not take a theologian to recognize heresy or a saint to recognize

evil intent.

Even my teenagers can see through the play on words and their true meaning.

I'm sorry if this upsets anyone but the truth is the truth and Truth does not

change God is already Perfect He does not evolve, He does not change.

If we went and joined Rome we would change.   

Condamné par qui, hormis l'évêque de Santander ?

Pas par le pape Paul VI ni aucun organisme officiel.

Amen Alley, wow, really well said. 

Alley said:

I'm not a Theologian, I may not be looking at things the same way

as many of you do but this is how I see it.

 

Our Lady to Marie Julie Jahenny "fight children of light."

That is what we must do fight, resist and if needs be die doing it!

The Pope has NOT consecrated Russia, and this Pope is worse than 

all of them put together. He doesn't even believe in Fatima or what

the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught for that matter.

BAD things are going to happen because Our Blessed Mother's

warning was not heeded, has NOT been fulfilled.

Now that being said, having any communication-dialog with this

unconverted Rome is suicide any way you look at it.

From what I read Rome thinks we SSPX are already under

their control now it is just a matter of convincing the good people of

the SSPX that they are the good guys and all the saints (prophecies)

were wrong not to mention Jesus and Mary.

It is just a matter of time before more bad things happen remember FSSP,

I'm sure they thought they would be the beaken that would convert

Rome and show them the errors of their ways. Hmmm

We need to pray for clarity for the graces to See what the truth is

to follow what the Catholic Church has always taught and nothing

coming from Rome is Catholic and we want to be united to That.

The bottom line is we must accept the new mass, it is not a mass at all

it is a mockery. We must accept the new teachings, for heavens sakes

they are rewriting a new moral code. That is saying right their that

GOD makes mistakes He really doesn't understand how things are. lol   

It does not take a theologian to recognize heresy or a saint to recognize

evil intent.

Even my teenagers can see through the play on words and their true meaning.

I'm sorry if this upsets anyone but the truth is the truth and Truth does not

change God is already Perfect He does not evolve, He does not change.

If we went and joined Rome we would change.   

Amen.  Excellent Alley!


Well said.
Alley said:

I'm not a Theologian, I may not be looking at things the same way

as many of you do but this is how I see it.

 

Our Lady to Marie Julie Jahenny "fight children of light."

That is what we must do fight, resist and if needs be die doing it!

The Pope has NOT consecrated Russia, and this Pope is worse than 

all of them put together. He doesn't even believe in Fatima or what

the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught for that matter.

BAD things are going to happen because Our Blessed Mother's

warning was not heeded, has NOT been fulfilled.

Now that being said, having any communication-dialog with this

unconverted Rome is suicide any way you look at it.

From what I read Rome thinks we SSPX are already under

their control now it is just a matter of convincing the good people of

the SSPX that they are the good guys and all the saints (prophecies)

were wrong not to mention Jesus and Mary.

It is just a matter of time before more bad things happen remember FSSP,

I'm sure they thought they would be the beaken that would convert

Rome and show them the errors of their ways. Hmmm

We need to pray for clarity for the graces to See what the truth is

to follow what the Catholic Church has always taught and nothing

coming from Rome is Catholic and we want to be united to That.

The bottom line is we must accept the new mass, it is not a mass at all

it is a mockery. We must accept the new teachings, for heavens sakes

they are rewriting a new moral code. That is saying right their that

GOD makes mistakes He really doesn't understand how things are. lol   

It does not take a theologian to recognize heresy or a saint to recognize

evil intent.

Even my teenagers can see through the play on words and their true meaning.

I'm sorry if this upsets anyone but the truth is the truth and Truth does not

change God is already Perfect He does not evolve, He does not change.

If we went and joined Rome we would change.   

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